I finished new order a couple days ago and now I'm playing new collosus. From what I saw and understand, Caroline and BJ are resistance battle comrades and she held a leadership position. And I understand they had a friendly relationship, as stoic as bj is in general. But ever since the beginning of Wolfenstein 2 and bj takes her suit after almost dying. But him talking to her "spirit" as if she's with him or on the radio has me a bit confused. I understand his impending death has him in a delecate mental state. But I feel like based on the nature in which he talks to her ghost, they were much closer than I got the impression from playing the last game.

For a while I kept thinking he was talking to his pregnant gf and I had just gotten the names mixed up.

Did they have a closer relationship than the one I saw in the last game?

I'm really liking the second game. The gameplay is ok, not great, but the lore and world building is top notch.

The only other game I've played in the series is the original. The one you can play in the galley.

I think older Wolfenstein games can explain the relationship between BJ and Caroline. They’re battle buddies, but they also seem to have some level of friendship. He also likely held her in high regards, hence why he keeps bringing her up and “talking” to her.

Wolfenstein: The New Order is a soft reboot of the series.

Wolfenstein: The Old Blood is a retelling and reimagining of parts of RTCW.

Caroline is present in Wolfenstein (2009).

TLDR, assume Wolfenstein (2009) is canon, minus all the occult or supernatural elements. That should give you an idea of what they're relationship is supposed to be.

Alternatively, just rewatch Caroline's first appearance in New Order. Those two have known each other for a long time.

Somehow Doom made some kind of sense with his canon including almost all the games. Wolfenstein is a different matter and a mess, but I like that they're not trying to force anything and they just take from each game whatever they want to use.

He met her years ago in the first Wolfenstein reboot game which is sort of, kind of, maybe canon in this universe. Same for Return to Castle Wolfenstein.

Wolfenstein 2009 is where Caroline and the Kreisau circle comes from. Deathshead is also a major villain in both the 2009 game and RTCW.

So in universes, he had many battles with her.

BJ is not a cold and calculated soldier. Throughout all of the games you get hints that he values people a lot deeper than he lets on openly. And as you suggest by this point he's reaching much deeper into his spirit to keep going. Nearly everyone around him that he loved is gone. Caroline is one of the few who survived for so long. She means a lot to him, and they went through hell and back together. And she dies brutally in front of his eyes, and her killer taunts him and the others with her body. In a way, he speaks to her to prevent her from just vanishing from life and memory, and I personally think that he has some level of belief that suggests she is still there in some way, breathing life into the resistance.

I don't think you "missed" anything, but I think it's important to reach a bit deeper than just what we witness to understand where things like this come from.

BJ is a fascinating character. Incredibly stoic at times, and outright a mess other times. He feels a lot more human than many similar archetypal characters. One of my favorite lines is from The Old Blood, when the city is burning around him.

"When I was a kid, we had a monster in our basement. My father said if I done wrong, it'd creep out at night and come for me. I tried to do no wrong. The monster came all the same."

He delivers it in this very bleak, almost monotonous way that speaks of surrender. It doesn't matter what he does, bad things keep happening.

When he exclaims "look, Caroline; an angel!" It's almost the opposite. This glimmer of hope that bleeds through.

Cool stuff.

As others have said; they knew each other long before New Order.

So, I recently tried playing through the Machinegames Wolfensteins and the first 2 (New Order/Old Blood) I quite enjoyed. Then, there's some kind of disconnect between them and New Colossus and trying to get through it was an absolute chore that did not grip me at all, but I finished.

Youngblood is full-on dogshit and got thrown away. It was so bad it ruined my impression of the first 3.

They had known each other since the 40’s in the events of Wolfenstein 2009, so I’d assume they were extremely close. The first time they meet in TNO establishes how close they are.

I didn't even know there was a Wolfenstein 2009. I thought new order was the first game back since the old PC series. It looks like from what your saying is the game in 09 might bridge the gap in some of the lore disconnect I'm experiencing.

Thanks for the help friend.

Ok. So it's basicly a case of me missing some games that came before these 2 and so I'm missing some back story.

I wish new order did a better job of establishing that relationship to inform his actions in new collosus.

Like I watched the cut scenes and took in as much collectable lore as I could but I really didn't remember bj acting twords Caroline in any unique or familial way. Or if it was there, I missed it.

The only real relationship I saw developed in new order was him and Anya.

Yea. The way fraulein makes him "kiss" Carolines head. It was brutal. To speak to your comment as well. I'm surprised that during new collosus (which I'm still early in. I've only just gotten to roswell) everyone on the boat hate the fat Nazi girl, and bj is like the only one who defended her. Yet it's her mom that murdered Caroline. I would expect bj would hold that against her daughter maybe even just a little, or subconsciously. It's interesting that bj is the one defending her place amongst them.

Also, I have pretty strong mental health issues, aki. To what it appears bj has as he speaks to carlines spirit in a way that he seems to know and understand she's not there and can't really hear him, but at the same time, he doesn't really know that she can't hear him.

Almost like he knows she's gone. But the only way he can convince himself that it's not a complete loss cause and to give into the death that's coming for him with his injuries and such, is to believe that a part of her is connected to the suit and giving him the little bit of life needed to save Anya and his twins. It's a bit PTSD/BPD/ paranoid schizophrenia except aware of it. Like when a schizo is medicated, sometimes it doesn't stop the voices, it just gives the person the ability to remain self aware during the hallucinations and voices.

Anyways. Thank you for the very thorough answer and engaging with me about this incredibly interesting topic.

I am loving the games. Especially the world building of the second game. The whole first game I was saying "I wish we could see America during this time line" and then I started new collosus and was pleasantly surprised.

Danké

Yup.