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Alternatives to D&D based on specific nitpicks?

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dragon5layer972
Field Medic
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34 posts 22 Aug 2022 joined
10 Sep 2026 at 13:05 #1

I started playing d&d from 3.5 and also played enough of 5e. It has a lot of cool stuff, but also a lot of stuff that I hate. It's difficult to check new systems and judge them without actually playing a little and there are a lot of them... I'm sorry for a lot of words here, but if you have some time can you guys recommend a good system based on my specific nitpicks?

1. I hate that a lot of stuff is there just because it was always there, not because its good game design. Like fireball is intentionally OP because its iconic and sort of a "brand" and taking any alternative feels bad. Spell slot system just feels outdated and too cumbersome for new players. I want the system to be built with good game design in mind, not "we have to save 50 year old legacy" bullshit.

2. Whole system build around resurrection being a common tool. Death is not dramatic, its just a resource. Also because of that i have to come up with bullshit reasons why specific important npc or backstory character cannot just be brought back. Or why nobles aren't just reviving everyone important for them every day. Death should be important and dramatic narrative moment and permanent. And i can't just homerule "there is no resurrection magic" because the whole system is built with resurrection as resource in mind and I would have to rebalance all of it basically making my own system.

3. Opportunity attacks kill all dynamics in combat when dynamics is already one of the weakest parts of ttrpg. Its a stupid mechanic that leads to "come close, do not move, roll dice until one of you is dead" the optimal tactic which is extremely boring.

4. Improvising cinematic cool shit is usually less optimal in termns of raw rules. Its always better to strike with your longsword than smashing a chair into enemy's skull because "improvised weapon is d4 and longsword is d8". This discourages creativity.

5.1 Tons of "you don't get to play the game" effects. I could see "mind control" effects kind of fun if you just tell your player "now you get to pvp legally, have fun". but stun/paralise? okay, you took time out of your week/month to come play the game and now you just sit there for half an hour doing nothing while other players take their turns because you failed a save. Or maybe even more if you fail your consecutive save. Great game design guys.

5.2. Roll to hit is basically the same shit. Fighter waits their turn for 20 minutes after all spellcasters doing their shit, rolls 5 and 7 on his two attacks and can go make coffe feeling he didn't do anything.

5.3. Saving throws are weird too. Either you wasted your only 5 lvl slot and nothing happens, or enemy just stunned you (see 5.1). I get it that "save or die" effects are less common now, but they just became "save or suck" and you still don't get to play the game even if your character sheet is still technically there. Maybe some gradation system could be cool, dunno.

6. A lot of character archetypes just suck in terms of player fantasy. Wanna be a cool necromancer? Okay, you can summon...1 skeleton. When you're at least lvl 3. And after 1 round of combat he is dead and you're just slinging fire bolts again. Wow, thats definitely what I imagined when I wanted to play cool necromancer. Sure...

7. DMG says the system balance is build around 6-8 medium difficulty encounters per long rest. When you're trying to play anything other than tightly packed dungeon crawl (but remember, D&D is not just dungeon crawl anymore, its versatile system and you can play any type of game with it!!!) you usually have on average 1 meaningful combat per day. So either martials feel shit because spellcasters go nova every time, or you have to come up with bullshit 6-8 combats per DAY, which take several sessions. Wow, we've been playing this campaign for a year and it's been...3 days in game time? and all pcs are suddenly demigods now even though we \_just\_ entered this dungeon. Sure you can tell "use gritty realism rules", then its the other way around. Your wizard casts their 5 spells in 1-2 in game days...and the rest of the week just spamming firebolt and feels like shit. Maybe we could balance character classes without spreading them between "short rest based" and "long rest based" so I as dm dont have to fucking juggle this balance myself every time I try to make a story?

8. It feels like lvl20 is there mostly for marketing purposes trying to sell you godlike power fantasy? who actually plays at these levels? All i ever see online is people saying its basically impossible to make actually good games at this point and system is just broken.

9. Lorewise its cool that humans live 80 years and elves live 700. But I do not buy that an elf with 250 years of life experience would find any common ground with an 18 year old human. Have you ever tried to communicate with people 10 years younger than you? It already feels like talking to a toddler, imagine 250 year difference. And also they both get to cast 2 spells a day? Come on...

10. Can I have a cost for every magic item please? If I want the "they are rare and not really tradable" feeling that dmg tries to force on you, I can do it myself. But why the fuck do I have to actually come up with item cost myself if i need to?

What I actually like:
11. Complexity level for new players. 5e made it reasonably easy to learn the game. I would be okay with a simpler system, but probably not more complex one.
12. Large bestiary of cool thematic monsters made over the years. But I could just steal these into a different system...
13. (dis)Advantage system is pretty cool
14. Its kind of actually good in being middle ground base for different types of games. Yes, it sucks in lots of specific ways, but in general it feels like you can combine different elements into a single game fairly well.
15. 5e has made a good job in lowering the amount of random "+1" effects that I have to track for every little thing. pathfinder sometimes feels like im doing

dragon5layer972 - Allies rifle
Spawn on me.

FoxLeks
Squad Lead
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80 posts 9 Nov 2024 joined
10 Sep 2026 at 13:06 #2

have you considered......warhammer ;)

FoxLeks - D&D nights
Nat 1s are character development.

sa4otage
Engineer
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35 posts 22 Jan 2020 joined
10 Sep 2026 at 13:08 #3

Instead of saying what you DON'T want in a game, have you considered listing what you DO want?

Like I can recommend giving Masks a try, but if you aren't looking to play a game about teenage superheroes then that's unlikely to be a good suggestion.

sa4otage - Map votes
Frostbite supremacy.

jason_zhuang
Field Medic
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30 posts 27 Mar 2025 joined
10 Sep 2026 at 13:11 #4

Pathfinder 2e addressees the vast majority of your concerns (including more d12s) and is not as complex as many people would have you believe

jason_zhuang - Server regular
If et-1 is up, I am up.

4ert225
Engineer
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43 posts 17 May 2019 joined
10 Sep 2026 at 13:11 #5

You might like Nimble, it was designed specifically in reaction to a lot of the problems you notice with 5e for a more streamlined experience. It's still a heroic, tactical fantasy adventure, but it's not beholden to most of the D&D tradition.

4ert225 - Trial / new blood
Still learning the smokes.

arttretyakov
Engineer
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43 posts 3 Sep 2018 joined
10 Sep 2026 at 13:11 #6

Nimble. Probably matches 80% of what you describe. It’s absolutely amazing game. And a lot easier to GM too.

arttretyakov - Server regular
If et-1 is up, I am up.

dantebarbaroja
Engineer
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35 posts 25 Mar 2024 joined
10 Sep 2026 at 13:11 #7

Draw Steel.

It addresses pretty much all of the points you made in regards to combat, doesn't use a spell slot system, and the Summoner class is a necromancer who can summon 8+ minions.

dantebarbaroja - EU evenings
CET after work.

nguyenbinhcter
Engineer
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40 posts 27 Feb 2024 joined
10 Sep 2026 at 13:11 #8

I know it's a bit of a meme. But your criticisms are the exact things that Pathfinder fixes. For instance only one class has opportunity attacks, resurrection is rare-ish and never expected.

nguyenbinhcter - Axis defense
Do not walk my MG line twice.

skwhisper
Engineer
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46 posts 20 Apr 2024 joined
10 Sep 2026 at 13:11 #9

Beat me to it.

I do think the complexity complaint is silly. Between the GM and player books in both systems, PF2e has maybe 10% more pages? And honestly, to anyone outside the genre, they look like the same damned game. It’s the specifics that make the difference.

The rules are internally consistent and linear, so understanding one helps across the board. And they’re all searchable online for free.

skwhisper - ET / smokes
Utility first.

roxydzey
Covert Ops
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58 posts 2 Sep 2020 joined
10 Sep 2026 at 13:11 #10

Ever checked out Draw Steel? It looks like you're interested in something tactical, and Draw Steel is a system that's built from first principles to create the kind of tactical, heroic fantasy that DnD claims to be able to do.

roxydzey - Allies rifle
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dragon5layer972
Field Medic
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34 posts 22 Aug 2022 joined
10 Sep 2026 at 13:11 #11

I feel like this could filter some of systems which I wouldn't want to filter yet...
If you feel like masks are cool, I will check it out, thank you!

dragon5layer972 - Allies rifle
Spawn on me.

dragon5layer972
Field Medic
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34 posts 22 Aug 2022 joined
10 Sep 2026 at 13:11 #12

I played it just a couple of times so Im not sure myself but when researching this system I often see players and dms mention that there is just too much stuff to track and combats often become slog because of it and it seems to be a very common nitpick. is it wrong?

dragon5layer972 - Allies rifle
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dragon5layer972
Field Medic
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34 posts 22 Aug 2022 joined
10 Sep 2026 at 13:11 #13

thank you, I will check it

dragon5layer972 - Allies rifle
Spawn on me.

dragon5layer972
Field Medic
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34 posts 22 Aug 2022 joined
10 Sep 2026 at 13:11 #14

thank you, I will check it

dragon5layer972 - Allies rifle
Spawn on me.

dragon5layer972
Field Medic
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34 posts 22 Aug 2022 joined
10 Sep 2026 at 13:11 #15

as in warhammer fantasy roleplay? or are you talking about something different? I think I played wfrp even before trying d&d but I don't remember shit about it.

dragon5layer972 - Allies rifle
Spawn on me.

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