Subsonic really feels like it needs something to make it stand out more aside from just being a worse suppressor. Making it tracerless could do that

i dont even understand the point of it its so weak

i dont even understand the point of it its so weak
yeah i could maybe see running it normally if it cost the same as default ammo on everything (5 points) but its just a$$ and having tracer rounds on everygun and every bullet type is both dumb (logically) and defeats the whole point of stealthly style gameplay because everyone will see where you shooting from anyway

I was using the suppressor with subsonic ammo on a DMR, the new VSS, I headshot a guy while I was neck deep in a bush and his friend immediately turned and beamed me instantly. He was like 30m away
Either he was cheating which is somewhat unlikely, or he saw the tracers from my rounds

I was using the suppressor with subsonic ammo on a DMR, the new VSS, I headshot a guy while I was neck deep in a bush and his friend immediately turned and beamed me instantly. He was like 30m away
Either he was cheating which is somewhat unlikely, or he saw the tracers from my rounds
I dont think the sub sonic or the suppressors get rid of the directional white ( thing that shows up on your screen when you get shot.. unfortunately. Theres far too many indicators to help people see the enemy.

The tradeoff between stealth and weapon performance has sparked quite a few discussions already, and I can see why tracer visibility is part of that conversation.
If subsonic ammo became tracerless, would that be enough on its own to make you consider using it more often, or would it still need additional tuning?
And yes, I agree, there are too many indicators imo.

If subsonic ammo became tracerless, would that be enough on its own to make you consider using it more often, or would it still need additional tuning?
I would definately experiment with it alot more. i feel like it would be something that youd have to actually gather ingame data on how it tracerless performs to see if additional tuning is needed though because its hard to speculate the actual impact having tracerless ammo would have in matches at scale

in most cases the muzzle velocity penalty is an absolute no-go for subsonic ammo. I don't think I found a single use case for that ammo yet

If subsonic ammo became tracerless, would that be enough on its own to make you consider using it more often, or would it still need additional tuning?
I would definately experiment with it alot more. i feel like it would be something that youd have to actually gather ingame data on how it tracerless performs to see if additional tuning is needed though because its hard to speculate the actual impact having tracerless ammo would have in matches at scale
You're right. You would need to gather more data on it. That is one of the things that I have seen throughout my time in the industry. When someone says change this, or we say okay, how would you do this? Someone has to test it, and that takes time. Its good think about what type of scale that would require. It's a good talking point and feedback to send over, though. Sometimes I see a response on whether that would work, or hey, I test it, but it's still worthy of sending over.

Tracerless and slightly faster velocity.

Tracerless and slightly faster velocity.
Do you feel tracerless alone would be enough first, or do you think the current tradeoffs still leave it too weak?

Tracerless and slightly faster velocity.
Do you feel tracerless alone would be enough first, or do you think the current tradeoffs still leave it too weak?
I think tracerless will help in some scenarios/fights staying hidden but the velocity penalty just seems a bit steep still. No tracer should help more in close fights and velocity when pushing distance. Another velocity alternative would be reducing cost of subsonic attachments so people would use a bigger mag to compensate for missing more shots at range.

Do you feel tracerless alone would be enough first, or do you think the current tradeoffs still leave it too weak?
I think tracerless will help in some scenarios/fights staying hidden but the velocity penalty just seems a bit steep still. No tracer should help more in close fights and velocity when pushing distance. Another velocity alternative would be reducing cost of subsonic attachments so people would use a bigger mag to compensate for missing more shots at range.
Good point. You're looking at two different ways of making subsonic ammo more appealing without completely changing its role.
If you had to choose one, would you rather see the tradeoff adjusted through weapon stats or attachment cost?

I think tracerless will help in some scenarios/fights staying hidden but the velocity penalty just seems a bit steep still. No tracer should help more in close fights and velocity when pushing distance. Another velocity alternative would be reducing cost of subsonic attachments so people would use a bigger mag to compensate for missing more shots at range.
Good point. You're looking at two different ways of making subsonic ammo more appealing without completely changing its role.
If you had to choose one, would you rather see the tradeoff adjusted through weapon stats or attachment cost?
For me personally I'd be fine with either. I think they both serve the same roll which is accuracy, one should help lead targets better which should help ammo conservation and the other allows people to have more forgiveness on missing shots.
Also on an unrelated note. Any chance you guys can also look into using the recon drone and how many points it rewards for gun leveling if any at all? I've had more than a few games with 100+ assists and I've barely been able to progress the new guns when using it. I'd assume it's because my gun isn't physically active in my hands while the drone is up in the air but it would be nice to get score/points and leveling that way instead of being focused only on kills.

Good point. You're looking at two different ways of making subsonic ammo more appealing without completely changing its role.
If you had to choose one, would you rather see the tradeoff adjusted through weapon stats or attachment cost?
For me personally I'd be fine with either. I think they both serve the same roll which is accuracy, one should help lead targets better which should help ammo conservation and the other allows people to have more forgiveness on missing shots.
Also on an unrelated note. Any chance you guys can also look into using the recon drone and how many points it rewards for gun leveling if any at all? I've had more than a few games with 100+ assists and I've barely been able to progress the new guns when using it. I'd assume it's because my gun isn't physically active in my hands while the drone is up in the air but it would be nice to get score/points and leveling that way instead of being focused only on kills.
Appreciate the breakdown on these. Makes a lot of sense, depending on how stealthy you want to tune your loadout.
100+ spot assists in a single match is massive squad support! 🎯
You hit the nail on the head regarding how progression works. Right now, Weapon XP is tied directly to combat damage, kills, and assists dealt with the weapon itself, while Recon Drone spot assists feed into your overall Match Score and Class progression. So even though you're practically handing your squad kills on a silver platter while piloting, the game registers the drone as a gadget capability rather than weapon combat.
That kind of heavy intel playstyle is huge for flipping contested objectives. When you're running that spotter role, do you usually like pairing the drone with a suppressed stealth build when you step out on foot, or do you prefer holding a DMR/Sniper to mark and pick off targets yourself?

I like the concept that Subsonic should be Tracerless though. Velocity penalty is huge and hits long range accuracy, plus hit indicators already reveal location making ambushes hard. Tracerless would help ambushing groups of 2+ spread out players, even if the target player has indicators to knows direction and fires back to alert teammates. but it still helps a bit.
But I also wonder if it would affect the VSSM, because it'd give VSSM a long range buff, assuming VSSM ammo is counted as Subsonic.